Roots, Rhyme, Rage And Jazz: An American Musical ContinuumDuring Autumn of '99, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum in Cleveland, OH presented and exhibit titled "Roots, Rhyme and Rage; 20 Years of Hip-Hop Culture." The exhibit examined the beginnings of Hip-Hop culture and its music of choice, Rap. Hip-Hop is the lifestyle, the fashion, the syntax of language of today's youth. Rap is the musical soundtrack of today's youth. It is, as Chuck D of Public Enemy so eloquently described, "The CNN of today's youth." It's impact on today's youth extend beyond the boundaries of these United States. It's a global phenomena touching, crossing and transcending traditional barriers of race, class, gender and language. Jazz from the very start has been a hybrid form of musical expression, embracing and synthesizing different styles of music the world over. It is a form of music that could only have happened in this part of the world. The concept of "pure jazz/jazz purist" has always been a puzzlement to me. I understand that jazz is a combination of complex African poly-rhythms and European harmonic sophistication, subtly steeped in a pre-existing Amer-Indian environment. This collision of cultures in North America has created a "gumbo" that is living and well equipped to continually redefine itself just as language itself is ever evolving. To look back and live in the confines of its beginnings is in a sense, "anti-jazz". Given Jazz music's ability to synthesize and adapt other musical forms and make it its own, it's not a far fetched notion that it would also seek to impact the world of hip-hop. Both forms of music are uniquely American and both genres are currently engaged in seeking a common organic, seamless level where both coexist as one. Part of JAZZTRACKS' mission of investigating the fusion of jazz and hip-hop included talking with some of the members of the jazz community who've engaged the hip-hop community on some level of collaboration. With the exception of bassist Ray Brown and vocalist Jon Hendricks, I've spoken to vibraphonist, Roy Ayers, saxophonist Wayne Shorter, bassist Ron Carter and trumpeter Olu Dara on their thoughts about this hip-hop world we live in and it's relationship to jazz. The following text contains parts of those conversations. WAYNE SHORTER Wayne Shorter–I like when the bass has that certain drone or something like that and they collide in a way that becomes emotional. I could tell that a lot of that stuff is figured out. Someone has determined that this is an emotion that can be figured out. The producer is listening and says, "That's it! That's it! Keep that!" Something happens and they keep it and they groove on that. When I say it's figured out, I mean it's captured like with a butterfly net. It has nothing to do with studying music. Bobby Jackson–Does it have to do with studying emotions? WS–Yes. BJ–I remember "A Tribe Called Quest" (hip-hop band) sampling your tune "Young and Fine." Do you have any favorite hip-hop artists? WS–There's a group (The Fugees)... A guy called Wyclef and a girl (Lauryn Hill). They were doing rap and something mixed with hip-hop. There was a melodic line that they floated over the top and it all comes together; almost like life. BJ–Yeah. WS–In the beginning, some people, some of these record producers might say, "There's too much focus to sell records. This music is almost like opera. There's a whole lot of stuff that's going on at once but it's grooving!" So they had about about three, four or five things going on counting the beats and the rapping. Then there's a guy who is half singing and rapping. There's another guy who's just rapping and then the girl comes in starts doing a lyrical melody that just crosses through all of that stuff. They cross through but it doesn't clash. It's not confusing or chaotic. It communicates. BJ–It's sounds like they've created music. WS–Yeah. I think it's theater within music without jumping all over the place. I saw the girl come out on a platform on the side away from the guys with this melody she was singing. It started to wrap itself around what the guys were doing. BJ–Do you think rap is here to stay? Is it a valid music form? WS–I think it probably will keep evolving regardless of the name. Regardless of the identification. I think the identity will evolve. There's always a need for words to describe things. It probably won't be called hip-hop. I think it will explain itself like this, "Don't worry about what to call me." (both laugh) BJ–I hear you. Do you have any aspirations to work with some of these people? I know Ron Carter worked with "A Tribe Called Quest." WS–I wouldn't mind. I think that comes together when there's a recognition of that happening between musicians rather than some manager. They're always trying to put something together. BJ–The artists should come together first. WS–Yeah. ROY AYERS Roy Ayers–One of the greatest things that happened to me was the fact that all of these wonderful, wonderful young artists that are hip-hop or rap artists or in the case of such artists like Eyrkah Badu, Mary J. Blige. They've been sampling and recording my music. It has been a great asset for me with reference to the fact that of course, I'm getting paid for it. But the other great thing is that these young artists have started recording and sampling it and I consider it a compliment! What they're saying is that my music is the best music for their lyrics. So understand, they could have picked someone else's music and in many cases they do. I've been sampled more than James Brown (at least I have more sampled hits than James Brown), more than George Clinton (Parliament/Funkadelic) and those are two of the most sampled guys right there. So I think that I've surpassed both of them and I feel very good about that. I'm really honored that these artists picked my music. BJ–What do you think about the gangster lyrics? RA–Oh, they can shove the gangster lyrics. The people that sample my music don't do that. I'm sampled by people like "A Tribe Called Quest...." BJ–Very happy stuff! What are some of the tunes that Tribe has sampled of yours? RA–Everybody Loves the Sunshine and Running Away... BJ–Right. RA–Of course Erykah Badu did Searching and then Mary J. Blige did it. They both did it this year which I'm just smiling about that. Mary J. Blige did it last year with My Life. The song that is sampled most by any of them is Everybody Loves The Sunshine. People like, the Fresh Prince, Will Smith. He did it with Mystic Voyage. It's stoopid! When I say stoopid I mean it's stoopid "good" when you say that. It's kind of like when people say, "You know what I'm saying." It's like when we as older people are saying stuff like, "Uh! I was trying to think of, uhh...." We do that all of the time. You know what I'm saying? (both laugh) BJ–It's that pause in between! I know what you're saying! RA–Really, I'm very honored and elated that these young people that have sampled my music and continue to do so are into Roy Ayers. It makes me feel good. They've been calling me the icon man. I was on a 747 jet with members of "A Tribe Called Quest" and they looked at me and said, "The Man!" Makes you feel good man! These are our sons and grandsons in some cases. RON CARTER Ron Carter–It's here to stay. I'm not sure that the entire lyric content of some of the stuff that I've happened to hear is nothing that I would want to have my name attached to in terms of providing the musical backdrop for that. I've always been amazed how they've been able to go into a computer and isolate certain things. How they're able to put them in a loop and have them in the right place musically as far as beats per bar, number of measures per chorus. I've always been fascinated with their technological skill at being able to physically manipulate the music. I wished they'd be more interested in letting the music manipulate their lyrics more and see where they go with it. RAY BROWN Ray Brown–When I was a young fellow, jazz was very popular. There was a lot of it being played. You'd come to Cleveland and Cleveland had six or eight clubs where jazz was being played every night in after hour joints where you could go and hear piano players. Jam session, you know. You go to Chicago and they had thirty clubs going. There was a lot of jazz. Jazz has sort of given way to a lot of things non-jazz. We have a lot of music now that ( I guess the word is...) invented for public consumption. I don't know if it's really music or not. I think it's entertainment but I'm not sure it's music. BJ–During the seventies there was a lot of cutbacks in funding for education. That's where a lot of this so-called "entertainment" came into being. I'm talking about the hip-hop phenomena that began in the seventies. Creativity will show itself in the face of all kinds of adversity. I think it was a response to not having access to musical instruments. RB–Sure! And who's responsible for that? BJ–I guess we all are. RB–(Pause) Well, I don't know. I think we should probably look at that a little closer. BJ–Okay. I've noticed that a lot of the younger jazz musicians are beginning to work with hip-hop artists. Do you think there is any future in the blending of both sensibilities? RB–Something comes out of all mixes you know. That's how we got this music in the first place. When Africans came over here, if they hadn't stopped in all those islands I don't know whether or not we'd be playing the kind of music that we're playing now. So a lot of good things come out of mixing. So there's nothing wrong with mixing. I think that jazz musicians obviously get something from hip-hoppers and they must get something from the jazz musicians. Whatever it is, I hope it works. BJ–Do you think that you'd ever want to experiment with some of them if they approached you and asked? RB–I've got two young members in my band. One is 27 and the other is 23. They play hip-hop all the time. They know that stuff. They play funk. You understand? These guys are not on the other side of the tracks. They're abreast of everything that's going on. Jazz music is the most interesting music and that's why they play it. BJ–I see. RB–But they don't turn their backs on other forms. BJ–What about you? Do you think you'll ever take an invitation to participate in something like that? RB–Well, you know, the only problem with a guy my age is the only thing I could bring to the table is something that I've already done. I don't have any new stuff. You know what I'm saying? BJ–Well, they're still craving for a lot of the old stuff. RB–Well right. If that's what they want, I've got plenty of that. It's still good see. I've put in a lot of time putting this all together. It's lasted all these years. I'm not ready to turn my back on it now. OLU DARA BJ–It's kind of interesting because I just learned that you're also the father of rap artist Nas. What does his name mean? Olu Dara–His name is actually Nasir Ben Olu Dara. It means helper and protector. BJ–Being the son of a musician must have brought an added dimension to your son's work. Over the years, you've lent your skills to so many different styles of music. How much has your career influenced Nas as an artist. OD–We never speak about these things. But I can only go by what he says in print and magazines. I think it had mostly to do with the literary books and stuff I would give to them. I read to them very early in their careers. It wouldn't be the normal books that you'd find in school to read. I used ancient books, ancient text and philosophies from other countries. Also he spent a lot of time with me at rehearsals for record dates and live performances I've done. I'm quite sure he's learned a lot from being around that. I basically told him that this is all our culture. Anything you see you can do no matter how much or how little you've experienced it. It can be done. BJ–I hear you in terms of the books. Being a rap artist I know that they understand the power of words. It's such a dominant part of that music. What kind of books did you share with him? What are some of your favorites? OD–I think the first book I would read to them (outside the stories I made up) was Aesop's Fables. It was the first one I read to them. I could see their brows go up and say, "Wow!" I got into Tibetan books, philosophical books. A lot of Chinese books....the Tao. I Ching books. Books on African philosophy; on Egypt. These books are from old cultures. I knew that they'd be able to read books written by Europeans and American Blacks. How could they help it? But all that is new culture. Books by James Baldwin, Langston Hughes is stuff I think of as new culture. So, start before these people were born, you understand and they did that. I guess I call myself an old rapper. They used to watch me do that. Nas also grew up in a neighborhood where Rap was in its embryonic stage (Queensbridge). Even though I was separated from his mother, I was always there everyday, you know, just to hang out. BJ–How much of yourself as a young person coming up do you see in Nas? OD–I see a lot in his personality. When we're on stage, we say a lot. When we're off stage, we're very quiet. We are basically observers. We like humor and to observe people. I know he has a trait of mine and that is to help people. We find this very comforting. It's very comforting to me. To be able to help somebody. BJ–What are your thoughts about this hip-hop world and rap, its music of choice? OD–I think it's great because it's been around so long. In my generation we would sit around and rhyme. We had no name for it but even before my generation, I've seen them with people rapping. BJ–Cab Calloway... OD–Right. When I was 23 years old I spent time in Africa and I saw a lot of that too, in another form. They would play the music and a man would speak to the people bringing a message. That was the first time I saw that in its reality. In 1963. BJ–Where in Africa? OD–I went to many countries. The first place was Sierra Leone. In Freetown. I also went down to the coast to Nigeria, Liberia, The Congo, Capetown, South Africa, Madagascar, Mozambique, Mombasa, Kenya, up the Suez Canal to Saudi Arabia and Lebanon. With that trip right there I got to experience hip-hop in its embryonic form as far as Africa is concerned. Simply meaning that giving a message without singing it, with a rhythm behind it. It's a simple thing you know. BJ–It's truly a communal language. A way of communicating with other folks. OD–Yeah, that's what it is. Now that it's commercial people feel that it's an anomaly or something. Only because it's commercial. But it's something that we've been doing forever and will be doing forever. To me James Cagney and Humphrey Bogart were the first gangster rappers. It's just that the music was different behind the scripts in the movies. BJ–That's an interesting thought. OD–That's the way I look at it. "You dirty rat! You know!" BJ–And it had a rhythm to it. OD–It had a beat behind it. It was a movie beat but still was screen hip-hop. BJ–Yeah, and it had language that was considered harsh for its time. You dirty rat was harsh... "You dirty rat!" (both laugh) You know, there's also been some scathing backlash about this hip-hop exhibit happening at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in some of the local papers here (in Cleveland). I'm sure it's a sentiment that is shared by many all over the country and perhaps around the world. Is it a good thing in your mind that this event is being covered by the Rock Hall; Hip-Hop - Twenty years of history? OD–I can't understand why there would be any kind of backlash. This is reality basically. It was produced in America by Americans, you know. Also, If they're going to have a backlash on hip-hop then there should be backlash on gangster movies, you know what I mean? They're doing the same thing. As a matter of fact, a gangster movie is more explicit than a hip-hop song. BJ–You can see the blood. OD–I'm wondering why that's okay and gangster rap isn't. Why is a gangster movie cool and gangster rap not? BJ–I also went to the opening of the Rock Hall's exhibit and they had about six or seven rap artists performing that evening culminating with a performance by Chuck D and Public Enemy. All kinds of people were there; young teens and young adults. Older people were there as well. The thing that I always loved about rap is the energy that the kids have and you can tell that they have this joie de vivre about life. They're doing this and believing in it and they also think they're being different from their parents. OD–Yes. BJ–But in fact, they're not being any different from their parents. When I was coming up at twenty, I wanted to be renegade. I wanted to do things that I didn't want my parents to be a part of. This was my world and this was my thing and we we're coming up. When I sat there and I watched this and watched their expressions; watched how they responded to some of the older rap artists as opposed to the younger ones, it made me realize just how much life really is a circle. No matter how much the youth try to be different from the adults, they're being exactly the same! OD–Yeah, we run in the same circle of life. I think it's only natural that the next generation is different because each new generation brings new information. BJ–Yes! That's where all the new stuff bubbles up from. OD–From the kids. The language, the dress, the ideology all comes from the young. Old people are very intimidated by the young because they realize this; The young give the old people the big picture. Let them see the big picture that they're getting old. They are resentful because the young are brave and strong. That's basically all it is. BJ–I've seen some lists of some of the greatest rap recordings over the last twenty years and Nas' recording "Illmatic" consistently makes these lists. Can you talk about "Illmatic," you sons' recording? OD–It was a tough time in our lives when that record was recorded. I think he was happily getting ready to record and then one of my surrogate sons, Willie was killed and my other son was shot by some thugs somewhere. Nas was getting ready to record around the same time. So I think "Illmatic" was so personal it's amazing that record even got to the public domain. It was very beautiful the way he went into the studio and worked that thing out. He had prepared lyrics for the session and left them on the train on his way to the studio. He just went freestyle, boom, boom, boom. BJ–Tell you what, that worked out really well and we'll close with the selection, "The World Is Yours." Thank you Olu. JON HENDRICKS Jon Hendricks–I think much more deeply on that than just the subject of music. In order to really assess that you have to go into the socio-economic and political events that have happened in this country. For years there's been an attempt to deculturize us as a people. To take away any cultural claim we might make, although the rest of the world loves jazz more than they do anything else American. So, I regard things like hip-hop and other things like that as the establishments acceptance of a so-called musical culture that they themselves imposed on young Black people. It's not something that comes endemically out of the Black experience. BJ–That's a very interesting observation. I grew up in The Bronx. That's where they say hip-hop was born. Basically groups like Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. Kurtis Blow would talk about their existence, living in the city. Talking about drugs (the song "White Lines") about (being) ghettotized ("It's like a jungle sometimes; It makes me wonder how I keep from going under). It really became political. JH–Well see this has always been our plight. We came up from slavery. That's about as low as you can get. We were never separated from the music. As a matter of fact it was the music that saw us through slavery. The spirituals that later became the work songs and the blues which later became jazz. All that saws through the whole black Diaspora. Now here comes these idioms foreign to any of our experiences. So you can only conclude that they're imposed on young Black people by White people who don't want to give jazz the respect that it deserves. Never have. That's why you don't hear it all over the radio. If you go to any other country in the world you'll see evidences of respect for their own culture. In the United States, jazz which is the only culture we've ever had... you can hardly find it. Now that's the deculturization that has taken place. It's like the genocide that has taken place with the dumping of the dope in all the ghettos and then the guns so that young Black people would destroy themselves. Lynching is no longer popular. BJ–I can remember coming up in The Bronx and the invention of hip-hop music. A lot of that happened because of the cutback in funding for the arts in the school system. JH–Of course! The young people had to make up their own version of the music which is jazz. It's what rock music is. It's young White people in England (all of whom I knew because I lived there five years). When I lived in England, Elton John was playing piano at Ronnie Scott's on Monday nights and he was trying to sound like Horace Silver. Everyone was telling me to go up to Glasgow to check out the new jazz singer, Rod Stewart. These people were trying to approach jazz music. Not being able to approach it, their attempts to approach it became rock music. That's what it is with hip-hop. Young Black kids who have been denied access to their own culture but have out of their own inner struggle did the best they could. BJ–Even in an urban area, a concrete jungle, a blade of grass will grow between the cracks. JH–You cannot frustrate a character. You can kill it out like the Conquistadors did with the Aztecs and the Incas. They just killed everything. In that way, not much survives. If anybody survives that culture will crop up in whatever form you want to call it. |
