Focusing on the Classics: Dan Polletta talks with Joe Lovano

Aired April 25, 2000

If you've followed Joe Lovano's rise to prominence you can't help but notice the saxophonist always acknowledges the importance of his early days in his native Cleveland. Lovano learned the basics of jazz in large part through his father, saxophonist Tony "Big T" Lovano and the many players of his father's generation who provided valuable musical instruction. Lovano's new album "52nd Street Themes" is a celebration of the great modern jazz created on that famous New York city street and the contributions made by Clevelanders during that era and in later years by those who passed on the lessons learned during bebop's halycon days.

The spirit of Cleveland's most famous modern jazz son Tadd Dameron resounds through the album. Dameron was one of the leading composers modern jazz era, although in many respects his richly melodic works seemed to have more of a connection to music of Ellington and Gershwin than bop. You can sing a Dameron piece even if there are no words. A long list of his compositions including "Good Bait," "Hot House," and "If You Could See Me Now" have become staples of jazz repertoire.

As an arranger for the big bands of Billy Eckstine and later Dizzy Gillespie, Dameron was considered to be one of the first to craft charts that brought the sounds of bop to large ensembles. Dameron's own recordings reflected his mastery of dearth writing--the ability through arrangement and orchestration to make a limited number of instruments sound like a larger band.

Lovano strengthens the Dameronian connection by having veteran Cleveland saxophonist Willie Smith provide the orchestrations for "52nd Street Themes." Smith studied and worked with Dameron, played with Lovano's father and served as a mentor to the young Lovano.

During a recent visit to Cleveland, Lovano dropped by the 90.3 WCPN studio to share his thoughts about the recording with evening jazz host Dan Polletta.

Dan Polletta–Congratulations on your new recording.

Joe Lovano–Thank you. I'm real excited about this new release and the ensemble I put together for it.

DP–When I picked the record up, I thought "One thing no one will ever accuse Joe Lovano of is making the same record twice." Sometimes it's a duo, sometimes it's trio, sometimes it's all your own songs, strings, all kinds of stuff. This album is something completely different than anything you've done before.

JL–Well, maybe as a leader. The whole ensemble sound and the concepts of playing in a band has been what I've done my whole life. I've really had a chance to play with some great band, in the big band sound, with Woody Herman and Mel Lewis bands, Carla Bley's ensemble and the Charlie Haden Liberation (Music) Orchestra. I've had a chance to record and document some of those things through the years. It was just a thrill to come to this point to be able to put a band together of this size and create this recording session.

DP–Now, the particular body of work you've chosen, a lot of classic pieces from what we associate with the great modern jazz, or bebop era - whatever you want to call it - why did you decide to focus on those particular songs?

JL–This music taught me how to play. The music I grew up with around Cleveland and coming up with my dad and his whole scene here was all tunes from the bebop school. It was great to bring Willie (Smith) in on this particular project and have him do some orchestrations for me, for a nonet. A nine piece band is really a great size ensemble where you can have everyone in the band a soloist and not have anyone just sitting there playing parts. Each player has a personality. I want to draw from that inspiration of each player. So, in a nonet you can have all kinds of different combinations of people. Each time through an orchestration could be a different arrangement...the order of solos or who plays when.

DP–Joe, you mentioned Willie Smith. Who is Willie Smith and what was his role on this record?

JL–He is a great alto saxophonist from Cleveland. He grew up with my dad. He came up playing with Benny Bailey and Bill Hardman. I think he hung out a lot with Tadd Dameron in the early days and was his copyist. He studied with Tadd, as far as listening and absorbing all these things that were happening. Tadd was one of the more creative, and one of the pioneers in cultivating the ensemble sounds of the Dizzy Gillespie band. He wrote for Billy Eckstine and people like that in the early days. I'm talking late thirties, early forties into the bebop period. The tunes that Charlie Parker and Diz everybody played, a lot of them were written by Tadd Dameron. So he was a real important figure on the New York scene during that time and Willie had a close relationship with him.

DP–One of the things I think about, when I think about Tadd Dameron is something he talked about where he said "When I write something, I have beauty in mind." He said, "It's got to swing but at the same time, its has to be beautiful." I thought as I listened to this recording, using a nonet really enables you to bring out the richness of Tadd Dameron's work. There is a certain always singable, hummable quality to his work. Its real rich and nine pieces lets you really do it.

JL–I think some of the early stuff that I was influenced of his were things he did with Miles Davis and they had a nonet and ten piece band they worked with, probably right at the time that Miles was first going out on his own after he left Charlie Parker's band.

DP–Most of the works here, Joe, are Dameron pieces but you've also selected a few other things, one of which is one of my favorite early things by Miles called "Sippin at Bells." What I really (enjoyed) about the way you did it was the way you open up the piece.

JL–It's the kind of melody you can just walk out - you don't have to count it off or anything - you just start playing it and the band makes its way in with you. So I took that approach. More and more I've been doing that to set the tempo of a tune, to actually start playing the beginning of the tune to set the tempo. Somehow, there is a little more organic feeling and every time you play it, it could be a different tempo because of the way you feel.

DP–How do your band mates feel about that?

JL–You have to listen a little bit more. You have to feel the beat instead of hearing someone go "One, two, three, ready? Lets go!" It's a different kind of feeling. You just start to play. A tune like this the melody just sets the tempo immediately.

DP–In listening to your stuff over the years, it struck me that you are a player that obviously has a great appreciation for jazz tradition but you're not a slave to the whole thing.

JL–You're inspired by all the great music that has happened and the personalities that played that music.

DP–Is that a hard thing to do - to try to strike that balance? What I tend to read about and hear about is that there is one school that keeps talking about people who do these kinds of things -"You're living in the past." The other school says "Doing something different is just part of the tradition."

JL–For me, I'm trying to draw from my personal history - who I've listened to and the tunes that I've studied is just part of that - it's the bands that I've played with, the different people I've played with, the different generations of musicians I've played with, the multi-cultural approach from playing with musicians from all over the world, from living in New York since the mid-seventies and going out and sitting in and playing with people that are your heroes. I find it really easy to just relax into the music and let the history inspire me to be myself and draw from the repertoire like I did on this particular project. Some of my recordings are all originals.

DP–When you have a nonet, you're going to have one of two problems. Either you are going to overwrite and its going to get kind of stiff or its just going to be a bunch of guys blowing. I think that Willie really hits the balance.

JL–These are really thoughtful, tasty orchestrations that Willie put together and let a lot of room open for me to arrange as we went along. So each night can be a different flowing solo order or backgrounds can happen at different times, the interlude could happen whenever we feel it. It's really great to work with an arranger like that and shape the music for your band.

DP–Willie, your father, Tadd Dameron - they are of a generation that was on the scene for this stuff. You're the next generation. We talk a lot about bebop as revolution or is it more evolution? Sometimes I think that whole romantic idea of revolution, I'm not so sure that don't we really overdo it. I think sometimes we don't see it as building one thing to the next. How do you see it?

JL–If you really study the history in jazz, all the concepts revolved around the whole Dixieland form - the early music Louis Armstrong created. The way the improvised their parts together in a small group setting led into a certain big band era of more written music with one soloist or one horn player from each section as their main soloist. Then, the bebop period came out of that, with soloists, but then they went back to a small group form with a lot more interplay and counterpoint. In a way, it went back to the way the Dixieland cats were playing a little bit except it was more modern jazz, it had a different kind of beat. Each instrument in the ensemble had a role, yet they were getting freer and looser to step in each others shoes. Max Roach played what Bird was playing on drums. Charlie Parker and Dizzy were trying to play what Max was playing on drums on their horns. Different things started to cross and that period really separated a lot of the dance band music into the concert forms that we are into today. You can still dance to it if you have the feeling but it is more sophisticated music in a certain way.